Curse

Manderlock · Sep 27, 2005, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

Am I the only one who laughed at this statement?

Nope one here.

Ashley Twig · Sep 27, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

But well. Yes. it IS aggro control. And if the casters are constantly out of energy they are doing something very wrong with their profession.

So most casters do make mistakes. Big deal.
But other peoples mistakes don't give warriors e.g. the right to make a mistake based on the one others make.

If casters run out of energy, they give warnings. And if warriors or whoever ignore those warnings saying: not my fault that you run out of energy, then that is another mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

You don't seem to understand that a person rushing ahead of the team gathers the aggro to have them focus on him/her.

Oh, but I do understand that.
We just seem to have different ideas about the term "rushing".
"Ruhsing" in my book is "attacking, while the whole team is not yet ready for another attack"
The "Rushing" you have in mind (if I get your words correctly) means: "tanks block the mobs from casters, while casters attack" (basically)

If your rushing is the true meaning of rushing, we don't disagree at all, because those are the basic rules of battle.
If my rushing is, what rushing is about, it's a bad thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

This is basically almost every time ruined by casters who get personal with the mobs and then blame the warrior for gathering the aggro.

To get back again on the rushing. "gathering aggro" is not, what I would call rushing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Sure there are exceptions when a tank simply is a relative of leeroy. But we're not talking about extremes, but about normal every day situations.

Now we're talking about rushing.

And Leeroy has lot's of relatives out in GW.

Like the one I met a few days in the wilds.
For some reason the monk took a little longer to join the game. His health bar in the party member window was still gray and that warrior was already attacking one of those storm thingys.
That's rushing. That's bad. That's what you see a lot in GW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

The only rules are, you don't bring your pet and you listen to what the teamleader says.

I can't promise on the pet thing, but if I am new to a mission (like the UW, where I've never been, or the Fow where I've been only 2-3 times yet) I am the last person to ignore target calls or infos given on the minimap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Did you ever have a look at the Geomancer Skills?

No. So far I've been exploring air and water. That's why I asked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

An elementalist starts with 60 AL.
...

Thanks for the explaining. Since my ele has been not so good with water magic, and I always wanted to change that, now I know what to explore further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Pets DO break aggro. No matter how good the ranger controls it. The problem about pets is, they start running with a delay. So either:

Hm, maybe I have blind on me, but I don't recall having seen that, and I have 4 chars using pets and only 2 that don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

- the Ranger is firing his bow first so the pet starts running.

Well, my pets (including warrior hench) usually start running shortly after the arrow has been shot.
If you use the S-key right after you sent your arrow flying, the pet will return right away, including Thom.

I think what most players don't do too often is, to make use of another tactic: "retreat".

So the mobs are after the squishys. If the tanks adjust to the situation, and fall back, they're back in business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Don't tell others how to play their class and which skills to bring.

I don't think I did. At least, I never had the intention to do.
All I wanted to do was to point out, that real players make many vital mistakes that can ruin a mission. And that henchmen make less mistakes.
Of course hench make mistakes too, but they can be countered easier (I think) than those of real players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

As simple as that. Let them play their way. If they want to be that IW Mesmer. Why not? Let him have his/her fun. The game is easy enough to make up for a multitude of very bad players on your team. Though this is simply no reason to bully others into different attributes, yet even classes.

I might be twisting your words here again, but if you stick to what you just said, and if your invitation to the FoW and/or UW is still on. Does that mean, I could bring my pet anyway?
I always had the feeling, that you were trying to tell me (and maybe others) what's right or wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

Don't twist my words. That is just downright lame.

It is, isn't it? But it always works. Plain and simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

I never said that the curse necro is the next flavor.

Neither did I. That's why I put a question mark behind that. I never stated that you were stating that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

I simply stated that there is more to a necromancer than the bloodline you are so obsessed about with (your "well" comment).
And the typical Spiter was just an example.

So was my list of classes, doing wrong things.
Warriors make more mistakes then just rushing (my meaning of rushing)
and there are blood necros that don't bring the well.

My original intent was to point out (what I think is) the major difference between real ppl. and hench.

I do think, that we agree on most things that were said. We just use different words, that make us think that we disagree.

coolsti · Sep 27, 2005, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Certainly if a Monk (or elementalist) plays stupidly and exhausts all energy when it is not truely necessary, that is bad. But I think what also all too often happens is that a Monk, and especially an Elementalist since they have a lot more energy to regain, has used up a significant portion of energy and hasn't the time to regain it before the impatient rushers are off to the next battle. I think this is the situation that Ashley is referring to, not the "Orion syndrome" of shooting off fire storm to celebrate the ending of a battle ;-)

I don't agree that "if the casters are continually running out of energy they are doing something wrong" is completely true all the time. It depends on how the others are playing - there is a limit to how much one can heal, and how much AOE one can shoot off. If the rushers take on too big a chunk to chew on, everyone suffers.

I didn't know that about the S key. Gotta try that. I do know about retreating, heh heh, and am quite good at it.

Regarding pets, I don't think any player in this game has the right to ask or demand a ranger to bring or not bring a pet. That should be the decision of the ranger. This is an integral part of the ranger's choice of skills and tactics, and whether or not the pet is ruining Kampfleks aggro tactics or not (I don't believe so), then all I can say is, live with it. Take it as a challenge that someone on the team has a tactic that you don't really like. That, or just leave the group you are in, and we all know how unpopular doing that will make us!

I haven't myself played a warrior character yet, but what I do notice is that I enjoy best when the only warriors in the group are henchy warriors. They are far easier to control, and let me and my group play the game at a far more enjoyable pace ;-)

Maxiemonster · Sep 27, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32

I guess the problem is, only noobs don't take Henchmen, because noobs and Henchmen won't succeed. And noobs + noobs don't stand a chance either. Though, helping doesn't change the fact they're noobish, and I don't like noobs getting as far as great players, just because they get lots of help.

coolsti · Sep 28, 2005, 08:51 AM // 08:51

There is simply no reason in the world to be stuck at this mission for any long amount of time. You certainly should try to do it with real people, that is what the game is all about. But if you can't get a good group together, one which does not leave and which works together well and with decent tactics, or if you simply cannot find the monks you need, then take henchies!

I did this. Tried with human groups for two nights. When that didn't work, I took my one character through with 4 humans/4 henchies and my other character with all henchies. And no one should respond that you cannot do this mission with henchies, because there is proof! There is an entire thread on this forum devoted to doing THK with only henchies.

So there is no reason to be stuck here for any length of time, and certainly no lack of monks! The henchy monks are always available and willing.

Kampfkeks · Sep 29, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Well... i helped 5x7 people through the mission so far and i'm going to stop it for now. The reason why? Constant moaning and bitching and blaming others... even if the mission is going fine. By the end of the mission there were constantly fights between the members of the party for some stupid reason and no one could calm them down. It seems that some folks are really really frustrated with this mission and a simple mistake will turn them into bloodthirsty flamethrowers eager to unload some of their frustrations unto others.

About the Pet comment above... well, it is not my group. It is normally someone elses group. Another leader, his rules. Besides... you CAN bring a pet but it won't get any love from the monks.

AcesOverEights · Sep 29, 2005, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Completed Thunderhead on my fourth try last night. Myself (W/MO) and guildie (Mo/ME) tried first with Henchies. Got almost to the end, but we weren't sticking by the king, we were running back and forth. Hehe. Then went twice with the same group.

Five of them were warrior/monk builds with one warrior claiming to be a healer. What a disaster, aggroed everying in sight. My buddy Monk threatened. To much gung ho, even the warrior who claimed to be a healer was running into the thick of it. Terrible.

Last party taught me alot about this game. Led by a couple of Rangers. We also had an elementalist, Necro, and another warrior on board. We brought Mehnlo as the last Monk. Smoothest operation I've ever seen. Rangers set up a ton of traps on the entrances to the fort and had the spirits fired up. Elementalist manned the ballista and rained fire down from the parapet. Played this game for months and that was the first PUG team effort I've seen that truly impresses me. Moral, Monks and warriors are great but vastly overated and typically trigger happy. Give me a solid, mature patient group of rangers anyday. In fact, I'm going to give Ranger a try as second. To many W/Mo out there anyway. (Trapping is as underated a skill as I can think of.)

So if you want to move a Noob out of Thunderhead send a Ranger!

Crowskie · Sep 29, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arton

That is a nice thought and some of these people should be helped. Then there is the other group that should never get past Thunderhead. You know the ones when you are the healing monk and ping your energy bar for a rest. This person keeps charging on so you say "Wait a sec for my energy to recharge". They usually reply with something like "Keep up and shut up noob".

Those people deserve to be stuck at Thunderhead. This way we don't have to deal with them at Perdition Rock and farther.

I love just stopping and letting those people aggro 20 mobs at once and die.

Iteicea Destroidium · Sep 29, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

I am working up a Monk slowly as my 4th and last character, and I look forward to being in this (heh heh) quite controlling situation. Believe me, I will aid in the instructions of these players.

Unfortunately, nobody listens to the monk. I say to pull a mob back so we dont get aggro from another mob...and they just charge in and attack, when the die...sucks for them, I dont rez them

I don't do this to be a dick...but if they refuse to listen to me, then why should I enable

It's funny because their lives are in our hands...but they still dont listen.

smurfhunter · Sep 30, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

now see thanks to your uber long posts i cant find the one by ollj, thus denying me a good laugh.

>.<

oh thats cause hes the op

*hums while slowly backing out*

coolsti · Sep 30, 2005, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iteicea Destroidium

Unfortunately, nobody listens to the monk. I say to pull a mob back so we dont get aggro from another mob...and they just charge in and attack, when the die...sucks for them, I dont rez them

I don't do this to be a dick...but if they refuse to listen to me, then why should I enable

It's funny because their lives are in our hands...but they still dont listen.

Had this happen last night in the Wilds mission playing my Monk with a party of 5 Warriors. After they all got killed on the way to the bonus (ignoring my warnings about the wandering groups and the advantage of luring) I had my chance. Being the only one left alive (I was in the back and I ran away when everyone got clobbered) and with a resurrection spell, I quickly typed in the chat message box:

"Now that I have all your attention, let me explain something about needing to lure here".

Heh Heh. That was absoluetely sweet. But they were a nice group of warriors, and they learned from this!

One and Two · Sep 30, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

I'm a monk. My friend needed help. Went in, rejected all invites. Made my own group. Invited a mesmer and necro, and my friend. Then, I brought people who listened to me. A nuker x2, what's his face monk, a warrior. Won without anyone dying, including the damn henchman. On the first try.

ps. the mesmer was trying to make me follow her out the doors for an "exploit". She just couldnt believe that it was patched...

JMFD · Oct 08, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

I was bored the other day, and thought what the hell, I know where I will be at least frustrated...
So I grabbed my trusty healer, and went to thunderhead. Drilled some basic tactics into a bizarre group combination and grabbed lina. Drew the warrior mursart boss.. and won...

Fun and rewarding... hoepfully karma will catch up

pyrohex · Oct 08, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Went through the mission with my last two characters on my first try - in PUGs. Finished it last night on my mesmer in a group with a couple of necros, and the two healer henchies. Very smooth operation - no deaths, just a little shouting on my part at the whammo-rusher. I'm thinking we won because of the healer henchies. Most monks probably would've forgotten about the king.

Shatter hex, by the way, is an excellent skill for this. Domination mesmers will have fun blowing up groups of casters with it. :P

Hot Dead · Nov 13, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27

I had my experiences with hench and I dont trust them (especially in THK), with my N/R I beat the mission with a PUG on the first try, then with my E/Mo and W/Mo I die at the mursaat boss (near the end). This is usually because the leader is asking for us to split up, 3 ppl at one gate, 4 at the other and 1 at the king. It seems to me that when you are a support char (mesmer,ranger,necro) the mission is a piece of pie, but the most wanted chars (monk, elementalist, warrior) have problems with mission (usually the ele and warrior have these problems, the monk is protected by the support chars [when there are some in the group] so not many problems there).

PLEASE! will monks do THK with us people that cant get past it? PLEASE!
I AM BEGGING YOU! PLEASE!

imanixon2 · Nov 13, 2005, 04:52 AM // 04:52

I am willing to monk for this mission occasionaly with only one request...no bonus. It's not worth it to me; yeah it's 1k exp, but I get so frustrated with it and since it is just a game and not a life/death situation, I do what is necessary to ensure the successful completion of the mission. I'm sure there are some monks out there thinking they could do the bonus with a PUG or henchies or whatever, and thats fine; just not the way I operate.

So, again. If there are people out there needing a monk for Thunderhead, give me a whisper (Monki Mynthe).

MultimediaJay · Nov 13, 2005, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Don't mean to break people's hearts but I broke all the rules at Thunderhead Keep.

I beat it as a W/Mo with all henchmen, using a Smiting Wand and a Healing Ankh as my equipment.

So for those people who don't know how to play that immediately whine, "We need three monks" the minute anybody dies, well,

to that.

Thanks folks for getting me in such a sick mood. I'm going to go to one of the bigger districts and listen in on the chat now...

Great thread folks, but even outside of "normal" character roles, this mission is beatable, and best of luck to the charity.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Nov 13, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

I was at thunderhead keep for a week and a half before i found an intelligent group with 2 monks. One of the monks dropped out in a few seconds but we finished the mission with only two deaths. Its not hard as long as people know what they're doin. The hardest part was explaining the arggo circle to the other tank. So I must say sorry for pssing one noob through to the ring of fire, but we did it with 7 people total, including one monk and a tank who arrgo'd must everything.

P.S. If you can't get a group get a guildie monk and get him in your party and just say Monk and _________ LFG.

MultimediaJay · Nov 13, 2005, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillaume De Sonoma

I was at thunderhead keep for a week and a half before i found an intelligent group with 2 monks. One of the monks dropped out in a few seconds but we finished the mission with only two deaths. Its not hard as long as people know what they're doin. The hardest part was explaining the arggo circle to the other tank. So I must say sorry for pssing one noob through to the ring of fire, but we did it with 7 people total, including one monk and a tank who arrgo'd must everything.

P.S. If you can't get a group get a guildie monk and get him in your party and just say Monk and _________ LFG.

Bingo on the part about people knowing what they're doing, but I didn't even need to watch the aggro circle too much.

This is great though. I'm watching all the chat seeing all these people who've failed multiple times throw hissy fits. It's sickeningly fun. Thanks for knowing how to bring out the worst in someone.

I keep advertising, "Experienced W/Mo for Mission AND Bonus. Blow Bonus and I'm out." Nobody seems to think they're capable of doing the bonus.

I'm too tired to try it tonight but one of these nights I'll do it with henchies and brag about that too.

Kais Unduli · Nov 13, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Solo'd the mission with my ranger and the rest henchies. It's not that hard.

But as the original poster said, one moron can ruin it for the rest of the group. I've even been in group that used the torch exploit, and some people still couldn't grasp the concept.